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Post by isaac on Dec 30, 2008 12:37:37 GMT -5
Moms gave me a gift certificate to Hugin & Munin, so I had to wander around for a while before I finally decided to buy Munchkin Quest. There were so many other serious games that I could have chosen, but I'm not a serious gamer, and lately the only person that has time to play with me is my six year old daughter. She isn't quite the "12&up" of age that the box recommends, but she likes to roll dice vigorously and the wacky characters on the box sold her faster than me. We played last night, and here's our review.
We both had fun. The game involves wandering through a random tile-based "dungeon" killing scary monsters like King Tut or the Wight Brothers, and searching for gold and other treasures that will help you kill more monsters. The winner is the first one to get to level 10 and escape. The game is a lot like that Dungeon! game from way back, or that other roaming around in a dungeon killing monsters game by Milton Bradley whose name I can't remember. There are two main differences: One is that Munchkin Quest doesn't take itself seriously, giving the players the freedom to behave similarly. The second is the large number of game pieces that are required for Munchkin Quest.
All those pieces took up a large portion of our table before we had even begun the game, and by the time we were finished, the dungeon had sprawled past the edges of the table and there were several stacks of cards to represent the loot that we had accumulated. The assortment of pieces makes the game regularly bog down in random particular rules (this isn't a game for non-readers,) but that randomness is probably the heart of the game's fun. Strategy must take a back seat if you have no way of knowing what comes next. For example, I was worried when my munchkin discovered "The Fan Room", because the strong winds were going to make it hard for him to fly with his "Crow Bar," but the random monster generated was a Pterodactyl that was equally at a disadvantage, and I defeated it. I rock!
Since we hadn't played before, it took way too long to play while we continually referenced the rulebook, which wasn't really comprehensive. But that's first editions for you. There were also only four sets of colour markers for the monster standies, but the colour die has six different colours on it, and so I suspect that some pieces had been held back for a 5-6 player expansion set anticipated by their marketing department. Sucker that I am, I'd probably buy it, (not because I plan on having four more kids to play with,) but because more room tiles, more monsters, and more treasure would make the game more random and presumably more fun.
Any grownups want to play?
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Post by Gilvan Blight on Dec 31, 2008 10:18:32 GMT -5
Received this one for Xmas myself. Haven't had a chance to try it out. It did sound a lot like the Card Version of the game which was a disapointment for me as I was hoping for something more like Dungeon and/or Heroquest. I have a feeling fans and players of the card game would pick this up pretty quickly as the base mechanic is the same (draw a monster, fight it, get treasure).
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Post by isaac on Jan 2, 2009 10:06:54 GMT -5
It reminded me a lot of Heroquest (maybe that's why they called it Munchkin Quest,) except that the dungeons in HQ have been designed and then laid out by a GM, while MQ is very random. There's a designated player to pull out the tiles for the rooms and the passageways, but you never know what you'll get. We ran into two of the highest-level monsters very early in the game, Squidzilla and the Plutonium Dragon, and then my kid played the "Mate" card on the dragon so there were two of them. Random movement landed them all in the same room, so we didn't dare move through that one until I traded for the "Bermuda Triangle" card which let me make that room tile and its inhabitants disappear into oblivion.
I'd been wanting to get the card game, but the board version looked more exciting. I expect the mechanic is the same, except that it goes: Move & explore, draw treasure or monster, defeat it or run away, get treasure, munchkin up. There's also a dynamic where nearby munchkins can help you fight that we didn't really get into. MQ probably has more rules than the card game, where most of the rules could fit onto the card themselves. We kept having to stop to flip through the rulebook, and I should probably look for a FAQ on Steve Jackson's website or at BoardGameGeek, because there were some fuzzy areas that we didn't understand perfectly.
It didn't get in the way of the fun, though. Do you want to play sometime next week? Oddzilla'z hungry for a game, and if we could get one more player it might make an amusing afternoon since none of us really know the rules. Maybe we can get a table at Hugin & Munin and help boost the game.
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Post by Gilvan Blight on Jan 2, 2009 11:40:51 GMT -5
I'd be interested in that. I'm not sure if H&M still has their tables all filled up with Holiday sale items though. If not I'd be in for a game next week. We tried it out New Years eve and played through a couple games. I'm pretty confident I have the rules down.
Regarding the game, here is my review:
Quickly: A meatier, more fun version of the Munchkin card game.
Summary: The basic gameplay is pretty much summed up above. Here are some details looking particularly at where this game varies from the Non-Collectible card version.
Take the card game and instead of drawing a card when you "Kick in a Door" you instead move a pawn around a randomly constructed dungeon. Each random room has something that makes it interesting and effects gameplay in some way (either giving certain classes/races bonuses or minuses or having some special rule in play). This adds a whole new level to the game. Due to players moving rooms there is the added complication that you can only help people in adjacent rooms. This usually means that players will need to travel in a group at first in order to assist each other before the usual Munchkin backstabbing starts. Another significant change due to the board game and room mechanic is that monsters stay around and wander the dungeon if not defeated.
Another change is the addition of movement and life points. This adds a lot of survivability to the Munchkins and makes the game somewhat more RPG like as you have more 'stats' then just level now. The rest of 'character building' remains the same as the card game where you have your base level and you add 'equipped' (in play) cards to this to get your total effective level which is compared to the level of any monster you face. 0 or more D6 are added to these adding a random factor.
Winning is changed slightly. Now to get to level 10 you have to beat a monster, which removes all those cheesy victories where people drop all their items and level 3-4 times or when players save up "Go up a level cards" Getting level 10 isn't the end though. Now you need to get back to the entrance of the dungeon and face a boss battle.
The Good: Much more intense and in depth then the card game and this is a very good thing. The added rules may take a bit to find (see the Ugly) but once you get them they run pretty simply and elegantly. This is by far more fun then the card game which tends to just gather dust on my shelves. The John Kovalick art is hilarious as always and the humor from the card game translates well to the board game. We found ourselves laughing quite a bit while playing which is just what I hoped and wanted from this game. The mechanic for monster movement I found really inspired and I would love to see it used in other dungeon crawl games.
The Bad: Only 4 players. I don't see any reason this game couldn't have included enough to play 6 players. I assume that the reason the Monster Die has 6 colours is so that not every Monster Turn means a character gets a card, but I don't see why they couldn't just include those other 2 colours in the game. I think Isaac may be right and we will see that in a future expansion. I would have greatly preferred if it was included in the core game as I often find myself with 5 player groups. Personally I didn't find this a great Dungeon Crawl Game. I find the aforementioned Hero Quest, Dungeon and other games like Descent, Dungeon Quest and Warlock of Firetop Mountain to be better reflections of Pen and Paper Dungeon crawls then this. This just doesn't have the meat that is needed to me for a board RPG. It's still a fun game, but it's in it's own Munchkin category.
The Ugly: Definitely not the best rulebook I have read. I can't even tell you exactly what it is about it that makes it so horrible but for some reason finding specific rules is a PITA. It uses the Fantasy Flight method of explaining the rules which I hate. This is where it summarizes everything. Then the rest of the rules are explained in detail in each chapter going forward. At the start of each of these chapters is another summary with the bulk of the chapter having the full details. What I find with this style of rules is that you end up looking in 2-3 places to find some rule you may need. Added to this is a glossary at the end that also contains some more meat that is skipped earlier. Thankfully the game isn't that complex so it's only your first couple of games that you should need to look stuff up, but you will need to add quite a bit of time those first games for rules research. The other major disappointment is the way the tiles were cut. The game came pre-punched (Which was a bummer for me as I like 'opening' games) and they aren't cut that well. We have had particular problems with the room exits fitting nicely on the rooms. This is both annoying and it slows down the game. I also worry I am going to have a bunch of rooms with bent connectors after only a few games.
Overall: a rather good game that builds on the mechanics of the Munchkin card game. Overall the addition of rooms and wandering monsters makes this much more fun then the card game as well. I still wouldn't call it a good board representation of a Fantasy RPG but it still stands as a good game. I expect to get quite a bit of use out of this one and recommend it for all fans of the card game and for fans of Fantasy games in general.
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Post by isaac on Jan 5, 2009 15:20:55 GMT -5
Usually I work weekends so a weekday is better for me. Anyone else want to play? The more the merrier generally applies to board games. I think it was the prophet Mohammed that said it was best to have four wives because one wasn't enough, two would always be fighting, and with three wives two would gang up on the other one. The same reasoning is probably true when playing Munchkin, as it is with Risk. Before I sidetrack the topic with lateral thinking, I've started a different thread on the subject of the optimum number of players for a board game: www.wgamingresource.proboards40.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=mini&thread=6113&page=1#14726
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Post by Gilvan Blight on Jan 5, 2009 19:59:20 GMT -5
I brought this up with Ian last time I was in the store as well. He suggested a Tuesday night. The problem we have is getting a sitter for a weeknight. It's not very easy. I could go on my own, but I know Pandora enjoyed the game as well. We could always play here some night after 7:00 when Gwen is gone to bed as well. For that pretty much any night is good until Jan 12 when I go back to work.
We really only need one more player, and you already mentioned OddZilla. He's welcome to join us here as well.
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Post by oddzilla on Jan 5, 2009 23:46:39 GMT -5
:)Yes! When and where?
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Post by huginandmunin on Jan 6, 2009 15:09:43 GMT -5
Best times to come on in and use the tables are Wednesday night Saturday and Sunday during the day, as well as some tuesdays. Check out our events calandar at www.huginmunin.com for free times if you are in doubt. Ian.
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Post by Gilvan Blight on Jan 6, 2009 15:55:32 GMT -5
Well as noted if we play here I don't need to find a sitter. Any day this week. Not next week as I return to work. But then I am laid off for another two weeks so Jan 17-Feb2 I should theoretically be free any day.
IF you guys prefer to play at the store, let me know which day is good and maybe I can figure out a way for my Sister in Law to head over for the afternoon or something.
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Post by isaac on Jan 7, 2009 16:58:16 GMT -5
Regarding the plans for a 5-6 player expansion for Munchkin Quest, I found this on the forums at Steve Jackson Games, posted by Phil Reed, Chief Operating Officer:
I don't see how including 2 more little plastic munchkins, 6 more little standies, and two more cardboard wheels with numbers on them would cost $25-$30 more, but I can assume that's what the price range for the expansion will be. There also seems to be a Munchkin Quest 2 in development, but I didn't discover what that would be about. It might be about lower levels in the dungeon with badder monsters like in Epic Munchkin.
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Post by Gilvan Blight on Jan 7, 2009 17:43:10 GMT -5
There is already an expansion out for the base game as well, one that just adds more rooms and cards. I've been considering picking it up. I was also told there were some promo items released when the game came out, though finding them at a reasonable price doesn't seem possible.
I would guess the 5-6 expansion will be in the $30-50 range. Mainly because of packaging and marketing. Since the stuff wasn't included in the base game, the cost of the components will get compounded with the cost of a new box, box design, art and separate rulebook which wouldn't have been needed if they just put the 5-6 player rules in with the original. I think it's just Spin that they claim it's to keep the game simple, they did it this way to make more money.
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Post by isaac on Jan 8, 2009 0:02:39 GMT -5
Session Report: 4 players (myself, Oddzilla, Pandora & Gilvan)
It took only two hours to play this time, with a minimum of arguing over rules and subsequent reference to the rulebook. Only Oddzilla hadn't played before, but he picked it up pretty quick, though didn't get much beginners luck. Early on in the game we stuck pretty close together and helped one another out with combats, but as the monsters got tougher and players started to fail combats, everyone spread out a bit more and didn't have so many cards left to interfere with. Until the end at least.
Of note were a mated pair of rabid squirrels that were beaten by only one point no less than three times, and so kept living on to nibble again. The Humungous and Coldly Rational Wight Brothers were virtually unstoppable until they disappeared when another red base was needed, and so they as the highest ranked monster were replaced. Unbeatable monsters must be against the spirit of Munchkin Quest.
Pandora and Oddzilla's munchkins each died once, which severely hampered their ascension past the low levels, since you lose all your cards and your treasure when that happens. I might have won the game if I hadn't equipped the Sword That's Good Against Everything Except Squid just before confronting the boss monster that turned out to be Squidzilla. That'll teach me.
Gilvan won the game shortly after that, probably because he had more equipment than the rest of us combined. That's the strategy of Munchkin Quest in a nutshell: get lots of treasure. I find there's a great advantage in having footwear that gives you an extra move, and Gilvan seemed to do all right with his rings that give an extra die when fighting monsters of that colour, since whenever you roll the monster die you have a 2 in 6 chance of rolling a colour that no one has, and so you can pick a colour that you have an advantage against. Games with fewer players are even more likely to have this work in their favour.
It could be said that a good time was had by all.
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